I think it is like WWII - Japan.
They were based upon Shintoism. That was an ideal.
It had taken over an entire nation.

I disagree... we are not trying to kill an idea... we are trying to kill a deeply held religious belief... and that is absolutley impossible... here is why...

People whose lives are filled with hopelessness and dispair, who have no real freedoms, who are under- and un-educated, who have no prospects of a better life, have nowhere else to turn except some variation of a religion. So, these poeple are forced to turn to a religious system that teaches killing the infidel and the unbeliever. You can change a person's mind, or what he thinks - his ideas, either through intellectual reasoning or coersion, but you cannot change what he believes as a matter of faith (in most cases). This is a battle for civilization, not a battle for ideas. This battle will rage until the one of the religion's true God comes to stop it Himself before the battle destroys the entire human race.

Sometimes if feels like we're on that last path, MB... the destroys the Human Race path.

The Arab culture is still trying to find its way into the modern world. The islamofascist side of islam seems to make them want to go back a thousand years - the Arab Culture has done nothing to improve mankind for about that long. They can't even bear to allow their women to be educated. It is a series of stupid, ignorant ideas that we are fighting - and the best way to win is to let them see democracy in the middle of the Middle East - once people see freedom, they want it. More than they want to be islamofascists.

MB - So I guess Ann Coulter was right after all: "Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity".

I have to admit, it worked halfway ok in South America. They're mostly Catholic down there thanks to the Spanish missionaries, and they limit their killing to the occasional political opponent.

All things considered, I'll take that over random, senseless acts of terrorism.

Not as good as freedom & capitalism, but it's still a step up.

They WILL NOT be converted because you cannot change their faith, anymore than they can change your faith... that is the crux of the situation. They are ALL taught, via the Koran, that the infidel must submit to Islam, or die... there is NO THIRD OPTION... invading their countries and killing their leaders only creates more anarchy and chaos, leading to even more religious fanatics that would fight the forces of democracy and freedom... and as soon as they gain the nuclear option, there will be only ONE solution to the problem... either they will completely destroy us or we will completely destroy them.

NOTE: Iraq had a secular government, not a tribe/gang of theocratic rulers, ala Iran, so killing their leaders had a different effect than if we would invade and kill an Islamic leader in Iran.

Good Point!!!

So why don't ALL Moslems slaughter infidels? Aren't there strains of Islam that don't take the "kill the infidel" passages literally?

Maybe we could herd everyone into those types of mosques and restrict the killing to the crazy fuckers?

There are some who feel nuclear capabilities are imminent. And when it occurs, it will not be by some big bomb being dropped, but rather by 5 cities being targeted, weapons having been smuggled in.

Saudi Arabia cannot be overlooked as an enormous problem, as they are undergoing a horrific recession, with only 10% of their population being covered by Kingdom. The rest are suffering at poverty levels. They send their young unemployed men to Mosques... where they are learning this extremism.

So why don't ALL Moslems slaughter infidels?

Because not all of them are crazy camel fucker splodeydopes... only the fundamentalists... those are the ones who have no tolerance of other religions or peoples... those are the ones that believe all must submit to Islam... and those are the ones who are our mortal enemies... although I suspect that their brethren agree with them for the most part, supporting them morally, materially, and spiritually, but are unwilling to sacrifice their own lives in the process...

So destroying the moderates's moral support by making extremism look bad i.e. piles of dead adherants, would probably go far toward making them consider taking up a more passive form of Islam.

I guess I keep thinking of it in terms of Christianity. Most Christians consider their religion a mostly private matter. And even the evangelicals, while annoying, are peaceful. I keep hoping that there's a form of Islam that allows you to be a productive and beneficial citizen.

Thing is, I'm not aware of any Muslim inventors or entrepreneurs.

Then again, I lead a sheltered life.