Personally I think this should have already happened no later than 9-18-01.

Either than or firebombed with incendiary cannisters made from rendered pork fat.

If I was the guy calling the shots it would have already been leveled, paved, and have a new restaurant Psycho's Pulled Pork & Ribs.

I'm with Grau, should have happened long ago, but don't stop with Mecca, Medina would do nicely too. Oh and Grau nice touch with the pork fat!

2) Can't make them hate us any more.

With all due respect, Harv, you're wayyyyyyy wayyyyyy wrong on this one. The vast majority of Muslims do not hate Westerners, and do not seek out ways to injure/kill them. And it's a damn good thing, too, because Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the world, and (IIRC) vastly outnumbers Christians.

Now, granted, if "them" is the wingbat fundamentalist pseudo-Islamists, you can't make THEM hate us any more, but then neither Mecca nor Medina is - at least, not that I've seen evidence of - a major base of operations for Al Qaeda et al.

Physics Geek is absolutely right to be outraged. Part of the defense that Al Qaeda makes of their attacks on Westerners is that we are in a holy war with them. Remarks like Tancredo's (and, frankly, yours) help to reinforce that idea.

You know I love you, but I just think you're dead wrong on this one.

Sorry Harvey, but I'm with Dana on this one.

We're not fighting all of Islam.

Imagine if some extreme Catholic group was running around killing people. So the victims nuke the Vatican.

Would that act as a deterrent?? Would you feel it necessary to reign in the extremists or would it piss you off as well?

I agree with Kevin & Dana. It may not be possible to make those who already hate us hate us any more than they do, but destroying Mecca would certainly make many more of them hate us. I think doing something like this would only turn this war into a worse shitstorm than it already is...

Bah. I've been saying "Nuke Mecca" for quite some time now.

Well Harvey, bombing Mecca has been on the minds of anyone watching the war and keeping track of what's going on over there. They should have done it when the Haji made their travels to Mecca. Now if that was gone, so will a lot of bad guys - and it's in Saudi Arabia!!!! But I still don't think it would reign in the terrorists because they're doing what they want despite the people of Iraq who don't want them either. But they really need to step up to the plate to make their country safe, except the terrorists are killing them off at a major rate but still they come to be policemen and army folk despite all the suicide bombings that are taking so many of their lives. It should make them madder. The terrorists are also trying to assassinate those in govt; they have to be tired of this bullshit. Once the terrorists stop, life can go on for them so bombing Mecca isn't going to make a difference. Allah knows who's good or bad and they'll pay for their evil deeds. Al Qaeda threat is everywhere and God only knows why. Preachers of Hate should be arrested and sent to jail as any radical islamic state. Don't let them move from country to country. We are going to have to PROFILE as much as that is hated but it's the only way to stay safe.

Cindy

I have to agree with Harvey. I think we have given the muslims who do not hate us plenty of chances to rein in the US hating muslims.

Taking what Kevin said about extremist Catholics acting like extremist muslims, let me tell you there would be more than one catholic who wouldn't put up with that bullshit and would do something about it. In the least let the world damn well know that the extremist are not associated with mainstream catholics.

I do not think mainstream muslims are doing enough to protest against their extremist brothers. I have never even heard a peep out of them. And living in Michigan you would think at least I should have heard some words of discouragement from the mainstream brothers.

So mainstream muslims, step up to the fucking plate and do something, in the least protest. Let the world know that you do not condone what your extemist brothers are doing instead of sitting on your asses and pretend nothing is wrong.

Taking what Kevin said about extremist Catholics acting like extremist muslims, let me tell you there would be more than one catholic who wouldn't put up with that bullshit and would do something about it.

Oh, really? Then where was the Catholic outrage during the IRA bombing campaign? Why weren't mainstream Catholics "reigning them in" then? The fact of the matter is that NO ONE can "reign in" terrorists. They have to be killed or captured, period.

I do not think mainstream muslims are doing enough to protest against their extremist brothers. I have never even heard a peep out of them.

Then you simply aren't listening.

Dana - Ok, if muslims are protesting against the extremist where are the articles? Newsreports? Blog posts?

Haven't heard anything about muslims protesting the extremists, and I live in the Metro Detroit Area, home to the largest Arab population outside the Middle East. All I hear out of Michigan muslims is them complaining about the US not doing enough in Iraq.

London Sunni Muslims issued a Fatwa three days ago against the bombings there on the 7th.

A few other places where Muslims have spoken out against terror:

http://quickstart.clari.net/voa/art/bn/C9A035AC-E284-41DC-8E5193F5E759D23B.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1441856/posts
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=37166&theType=NB
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/news/2005/07/sec-050708-3ebcf2fe.htm

And because you wanted something from Michigan:

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw118147_20050708.htm

These were the results of about a 3-minute Google search, excluding blogs. I've also heard condemnations on NPR, and that was without really looking for it. I'm sure there are hundreds more examples, but I have kids to get to preschool so I can't really scour the web right now. Still - the point is there ARE condemnations out there. Perhaps they aren't getting proper press, or you aren't looking in the right places for them, but they ARE out there.

A spirited debate wherein Harvey is opposed by Dana. As you might have noticed from my post, I'm siding with Dana, and it's not just because she's cuter than Harvey. She simply happens to be correct.

PG - My ass. If *I* were America's #1 Pin-up Girl, you'd be all like "Harvey is the smartest guy in the world and he's exactly right on this."

Fickle :-P

Dana and Kevin are right. We are not fighting all Muslims just 68% of them.

Harvey, if you were America's #1 pin-up girl, it would be a sign that the Apocalypse is upon us.

If Harvey were America's #1 pin-up girl, that would (at best) make me America's #2 pin-up girl, at which point I would have to kill myself because, you know... I'm all about the fame. ;)

Dana,

I think I have to take exception to the IRA comparison. According to statistics gathered from 1968 to present by the MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base, the IRA has been responsible for 83 incidents resulting in 139 injuries and 28 fatalities while Al-Qaeda has been responsible for 27 incidents resulting in 6,476 injuries and 3,521 fatalities. Also, the IRA aimed the majority of its attacks at military targets, while Al-Qaeda has no such claim, with almost even distribution between government, business, diplomatic and other categories. Al-Qaeda would also never consider apologizing to the civilian victims of its rampage, such as that offered up by the IRA in July 2002. While the IRA has backed off of its offer to disarm, it has remained committed to honor the cease-fire agreement reached in April 1998. There was Catholic outcry against the IRA tactics, just as there is Muslim outcry now, yet for the same reasons you gave it wasn't covered by the press and/or people didn't know where to get the information.

And for the record, Rep. Tancredo didn't suggest that we just bomb the crap out of Mecca. He merely stated that mayhaps we should make the possibility of retaliation known. I agree with Harvey's statement of "If you value your holy sites, civilize your brethren."

Just my 2 cents worth.