I'd say a "cautionary" strike on Medina (nearly as "holy" to Muslims as Mecca--the site of the first Muslim massacre of Jews) would raise the credibility level of a retaliatory strike on Mecca to about 100%.

And it's not as though there were no just cause for such a strike already: to date, Muslims have made no genuine effort to discourage jihadist savages in their midst.

Medina a sea of radioactive glass: it's at least be a credible statement of purpose.

I actually would not trade cities in such a scenario. We have been attacked here by muslim terrorists. We must take the fight to their doors. Give them a reason to stop trying to kill us. Let them see the consequences with their own eyes. I disagree with one of the commentors in your last post. While it is true that not all muslims hate us, even moderate muslims look at the Western world as the root of evil. After London was bombed, moderate muslims, who are not filled with hatred, still stated that the US and Tony Blair, and not the terrorists were the problem. When that mentality changes we will see real progress. Since there are no apparent strides in that direction, giving them a reason to move is necessary. Maybe not bombing Mecca or Medina, but showing force of some kind to wake the average joe-muslim from his stupor to stand up against terrorism; that is absolutely necessary.

As I said on Aaron's CC last week:

Japan is a good case study here. Who would have thought that after the bomb was dropped, Japan would become our most frequent trade partner in the world. We haven’t had a scrap with Japan since the bombs were dropped. They love us over there! And this was a country that perfected suicide “bombing” techniques with Kamikaze warriors during WWII.

I don’t think it’s entirely outside the realm of reason to suggest that perhaps a similar relationship could exist between us and Iraq if we have the sense to teach them a lesson.

I liken this solution to ripping off a bandaid very quickly rather than slowly peeling it off of a wound.

I'm agnostic about nuking Mecca. Convince me that it would have the desired effect and I'm all for it. Convince me that it would be counterproductive and I'm against it.
What I am strongly against is taking ANYTHING off the table.

I barely beat the minimum height requirements for my Department. It wasn't until the local scumbags learned that there was nothing I wouldn't do to win if they raised a hand to me that I didn't have to fight them to make an arrest. Once they realized that, in a fight, I was plumb crazy and meaner than a rabid dobermann, they started to come along quietly.

The way to avoid a fight is that the potential opponent knows that the price for fighting is too high. Whether this idea is the right one, I don't know. I think it's a good idea for the thought to be out there, though.

Grrrr.... I agree with every single person who commented before me.

What say we experiment a little, and see what works. :D

Having to take responsibility for one's actions is always a good learning tool.

During the Cold War, no rational person actually *wanted* to nuke Moscow.

However, it was necessary to issue that threat - and make it credible - to ensure that a power-hungry leadership did not attempt to take over portions of the World with force.

The US must make a credible threat against the Jihadi's or they will stop at nothing - Bio, nuke, nothing.

A *publicly* stated promise that if any US city is nuked or chemed will result in at least one of the Muslim Holy Cities being nuked will serve that purpose. It is necessary to put a palpable threat into the heads of the Jihadi's.

If we can turn things around on them, it will be good for us. If - by making such a threat - the moderate Muslims turn to the fanatics and say; "Do not make them destory our cities!", then we will have a powerful card in our hand.

Granted, if that promise is made, the initial backlash will be tremendous and condeming. But it will get the point across. That point being; "We aren't fooling around here."

Consider this perspective; If your child knows you will never put them in "Timeout", do you think threatening to do it will have any effect?
And yes, I do find the comparison close enough.

I would like to uphold Dana's point about the I.R.A. They killed thousands of my countrymen, on our very streets. English and Irish alike. It didn't matter to them. And who funded that?

Also, if you think that destroying a Holy City is Just Revenge, remember that some of these people are insane fanatics. Was not the Temple in Jerusalem destroyed? More than once? (My Bible Study knowledge is a little rusty)

Did the Faith die with it? Of course not. They don't give a shit about their cities Harvey, because they live in a fucking desert. They have fuck all to lose.

Blowing up Mecca would be a nice little "tit for tat" morale booster as regards to New York, but it would not solve the problem, and it would only serve to escalate it.

I am reminded of the scene in "Independence Day", when residents of L.A are told not to fire their weapons at the spacecraft. It is not that easily solved.

Ok, so the price for nuking New York should be...?

I mean, is there ANYTHING that would deter these maniacs? That's what I'm looking for in this discussion.

Does anyone know if the Moon is considered 'holy' to the Islamo-Fascists?

We've already got a plan for that, right?

Sally beat me to the punch. Bombing Mecca would not be a deterrent to the fanatics at all. It didn't stop them from attacking us from Najaf nor from Karbala (holy sites sacred to Shi'ites). They simply don't think rationally. I agree that it would be really nice if we could figure out an effective deterrent, but I just don't think there IS one. We are left in the unenviable position of having neither carrot nor stick that will help us.

Bombing a city in a sovereign nation that was not involved in an attack on us - particularly the single holiest site to the ENTIRE Muslim population - (though less so to the actual terrorists) would do little more than make over a quarter of the world our avowed enemies.

Finally, David, Medina is not sacred for being the site of the "first Muslim massacre of Jews" (the first time I've ever even heard that), but because it's where the prophet Muhammad is buried, where his mosque is, and where he fled to from Mecca (that's why it's part of the Hajj). Source: ReligionFacts.com.

We should drop a large inert bomb casing with a radioactivity symbol on it just outside of Mecca with a mylar streamer on the tail that reads "Thinking of you..."

This would probably make the terrorism situation worse, but it would amuse the hell out of me :)

I'm with Grau, here....a Hallmark moment in the making!

Just start dipping all those crazy fuckers in pig fat... that'll shut those bastards up once and for all!!1!

So Harv, does this go on your list of ways to generate more site traffic?

"I don't want to destroy Mecca. I want to keep America's cities safe. And if setting the price tag of "losing New York" at "losing Mecca" will accomplish that goal, then so be it.

If there's another price that's too high for them to pay, I'd be interested in hearing it.

But that's just it. I think there is nothing that they would consider "too high a price"...and they would simply accuse US of terrorism, and continue or escalate their "holy war". They are crazy fuckers, so normal logic isn't going to work with them.
Oddybobo's right that all Muslims see the West as the root of all evil, so maybe that's what we need to fix. They're taught this crap from birth. (Kinda like rednecks around here are taught to be hateful). So how do we change what they're being raised to believe about us?

I have read in many blogs the argument that we can't kill them all. And although it is technically true it really shows how little we understand the power of our own military. Given a tripling in budgetary discrepancy the entire B-52 fleet mothballed in the dessert could be flying and bombing nonstop until there were no more significant structures left in the middle east. That includes all cities all roads all infrastructure. Most of this could be accomplished without anything more that the conventional munitions we now have stockpiled. It is a matter of political restraint that prevents this reality. In a matter of a few months the number of Muslims in the world would be drastically reduced. More importantly all the holy sites would be reduced to rubble or completely vaporized depending on the veracity of the targeting. Praying to Mecca would become an intangible, practiced by an ever shrinking population of worshipers who would quickly dissipate as the generation who last saw Mecca died away. All that prevents this is the world view that Islam is not a threat to the world.

Mecca is already intangible to the millions of muslims who have never been there, but who pray daily in it's direction. It is an abstract. A symbol. Destroying the buildings will do sod all.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in Texas who do not go out and murder, because they do not want to pay the price for it. There are, however, people who cannot help themselves, because they are insane.

There is no reasoning with mad people.

I have found that farting in the general direction of Mecca five times daily makes me feel better. In fact, I recommend a "Call to Fart" alert throughout the Western World.

Let's annex Mecca and just make it a territory like Puerto Rico. Then they can be like all the other self hating Americans and just start blogs like KOS, DU, and Moveon.

Vaporize Medina and threaten the same for Mecca. This is the only way to fight the mental illness known as Islam. We need to make them realize that their god is worthless and impotent. We must break their spirits. That is what needs to be done.

am i the only person in the world who feels that a clash of cultures between the west and islam is inevitable?

why are we discussing half measures? tit for tat violence?

We have the capicity to take out the focal point of their entire religion and do it with mimimal loss of life.

this hostility between our cultures is not going to go away. sooner or later a worldwide civil war will come. Surely it is better to end this war now than wait a generation or two until it is unwinnable.

mecca and the mosques there are the focal point of islam. allah himself has guaranteed their security. with one act we could demonstrate to 900 million people that their god is powerless, their religion a lie.

people say this will enrage the muslim world. without mecca there is no islam.